The Q2 Machine: Mysterious Science Pulls In Greedy Suckers
How about YOUR question here?
Read below or choose another question.
There will be more, I'm sure. I get these requests to look over some million dollar miracle regularly!
This is just a response message to your report/views of others - the aqua chi machine.
Well I thought so! I purchased a clairol foot spa at a
What is disturbing though is that someone in this area is a "registered practitioner" of this treatment and almost certainly obtained some kind of a government grant for its purchase.
To think that it could potentially CAUSE HARM is quite dreadful. OK I know there are worse
things people can do with their lives/money but having been a cancer
No we've got far too much to learn yet regards causes never mind
what the government and powers that be keep from us - the more we can
protect ourselves from the better I just feel sorry for the people who
so easily get sucked in hopefully they will drop on websites like your
own to prevent that. Many many thanks for trying to help people -
December 18, 2002
Thank you for your recent newsletter.
Having respect for your humble opinion can you please advise on the following product? Claims have been made that this unit can assist with chelation.
Do you have any comments?
Worthless, huh? Have you tried it?
Is this your opinion, or personal expereince?
If you wish to be fooled by mysterious science, so be it.
That product is a fraud as I see it.
It will be sold via some MLM to suckers who sell to suckers, and within one year or less will quietly disappear with suckers having lost a great deal of money.
You are obviously now hostile -- which means that you are already one of the suckers or want to be.
You will continue angry at me, logically, for pointing this out.
In the year, by the time it is a proven fraud, you will then be too embarrassed to ever write to me again. You will have convoluted your thoughts so that I am, somehow, to blame for your foolishness. I tell the truth despite the fact that I have to assume that you will never, ever buy any of my products. That's OK with me! This is my opinion, it cannot be a statement of fact. Any comment I make about this product is my opinion -- to which I am entitled. I am also entitled to copy copyrighted material for "fair comment" and I am sure doing that.
Of course this is dumb, but that is what happens when greed overcomes common sense. Common sense should tell you that there is no free lunch, and that any "new science" or new pill, or new machine must have some ties to reality.
The Wall Street Journal recently summed up the infectious greed on Wall Street with an article that included this excerpt:
Yes, new stuff is developed regularly, but you cannot escape the boundaries of gravity and chemistry -- so you, the promoter of the fraud, clothe the new thing in mysterious words that greedy people will not understand, but more importantly, will not try to understand.
This is the key to recognizing such scams. There are words for which no definition can be found.
Images are particularly misleading. Here is the "new science" in an image to the right.
You could read more about the "field plates" and the "magnetic envelope" but you would never be able to logically connect or explain these deliberately mysterious terms to anything in a standard physics or chemical text book.
This is mysterious garbage.
Here is more:
You read this and say, "I don't understand this completely, but they must understand it. They are so much more knowledgeable than I am. This must be a good product!"
When you read the full story of the above WSJ article, you'll find my simple explanation of the scheme as based on simply use of words for which no agreed definition was used. When you find "words" in some promotional brochure, you have a moral obligation to yourself to be sure that you understand those words.
In this case the suckers will read words that have NO POSSIBLE MEANINGS in any standard context, they will ignore the lack of logic, and plunge ahead on the basis of infectious greed to make money quick.
The difference about me? I see "mysterious words" and I go looking for the meanings. This new scam has many wonderful words that have no meaning other than what a greedy person assumes must exist.
Here is an example. Incidentally, like other frauds, the promoters have "fixed" their page so that it cannot be copied! You try, discover this, and are further sucked into the mystery of it all. Of course, there is a very easy handling for this so-called restriction.
A reader who asks that his name not be shown wrote this:
June 25, 2003
Karl: This sounds valid to me -- further proof of the scam!
The following is taken from: http://www.webdeb.com/q-machine/index.html
The Q2 Energy Spa
*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.
I could point out the words, here, that have no agreed upon dictionary definitions.
The claim is:
The Q2 Energy Spa was created to realign, balance and enhance the bio energetic levels in water that is then used by the cells of all living things.
Start with water. There is a word we understand. OK.
Then, you learn here that water has something called "bio energetic levels." What is this?
"Bio" usually means "life" but "bio energetic" would have no commonly understood meaning. Perhaps it means "the energy of life?" What would that be? It is certainly mysterious. Sounds great!
Apparently, according to this claim, water has some level of bio energy, but that this level needs realigning, balancing and enhancement? The Q2 machine will realign this energy. The Q2 machine will balance it! The Q2 machine will enhance it!
How could there be any possible connection between such words and commonly understood physics and chemistry? My opinion is based on logic.
The sucker doesn't know what these words mean, but he is NOT interested in the science of this, but in the millions of dollars he can make. He fools himself into thinking that this mysterious machine can make people healthy. But, underneath it is only greed that drives such dumbness.
Keep in mind that the infectious greed for money carries over, in the pep rallies, to an assumption that "healing" and "health" are taking place. Add into this the well-known "placebo effect" that indicates, commonly, that 25% of people who take a sugar pill will "get better." It is not that they SAY that they get better, they actually do get better -- it is the placebo effect.
When you combine the infectious greed of the pep rally with the common placebo effect, you may well have a large number of distributors and customers swear that this machine cured XXX! Anything!
The promoter then goes on with another touch to reality:
that is then used by the cells of all living things.
Well, it is certainly true that all living things use water. So, since this is true, then, probably, according to the promoter, the earlier comments must be true.
The promoter claims:
Experience increased vitality, clarity and an overall sense of well being.
Here is goes again. The claim here is that you will experience increased vitality!
How would you define "vitality?"
How would you define "clarity?"
How would you define "sense of well being?"
The truth is that these words have no meaning except what a greedy person puts there out of his own twisted logic.
Here is more of the claim
By using the Q2 Energy Spa regularly, you (and your family) can increase your energy levels whenever neede.
(There is a typo on the page, "neede" should probably be "needed."
You can increase your "energy levels."
What are those?
What, for goodness sakes, does that mean.
I recently wrote about the fraud of "Coral Calcium" based on their use of words that had no relevance or no meaning. THIS Q2 product takes the cake!
The promoters claim:
If you have not become skeptical by now, you should have.
The"latest in Health Technology" is a simple claim, hard to prove false, but such a claim doesn't make the Q2 worthwhile, even if somehow true.
An"organic battery charger" is a curious phrase -- it is a phrase which creates a mystery, since you have probably never heard of an "organic" battery charger. There is nothing here to explain why "organic" is better or good, but it is certainly mysterious. You expect that this is explained elsewhere on their pages?
I spent some time looking but could not find any explanation of "organic battery charger." I did find a hidden reference to the fact that they take "regular" electricity and turn it into "bio energy" but apparently that is nothing more than low voltage, as shown on one of their not-easy-to-find references.
"Nature's first Helping Hand"is a phrase with not only no meaning, but implies a travesty against "Nature" if by "Nature" you mean "God."
What is the definition of"Nature?"
Has"Nature" been actively withholding "her" "helping hand" up to now?
"Increases natural energy levels"is a phrase with no meaning.
What is"stress?" What is "tension?" Perhaps you think YOU know when you feel "stressed" but what common agreement on a definition would apply?
In any event, how do you know when even YOUR stress is"reduced?"
"Restores harmony and balance!"Here is phrase with zero meaning! None! Do you feel a lack of harmony? Try kissing your wife!
"Simple and easy to use by everyone."Well, put some truth on the end of the lie. But, also, if you read the frequently asked questions (below) you find a whole list of people who SHOULD NOT use this machine. That is another part of the scam.
Much of marketing is based on the concept of "scarcity." If something is too easy, or too much available, then it cannot be valuable. On the other hand, you can make something appear to be more valuable by creating a fake scarcity.
You say that "everyone can use" this device, but then you make it plain that not only may pregnant woman NOT use the device, but neither can anyone with an electrical device inside their body. These are reasonable, but if the whole thing is a fraud from the start, then bringing in fake scarcities just makes it appear more valuable to the sucker.
I could go on with just such an analysis of the product itself.
If you fall for this type of deception, shame on YOU. Of course the company is guilty of fraud, but the Governor of California was a sucker for illegal energy manipulation, too, and now the citizens of California are left with a State debt of about $30 billion paid in excessive prices to the energy companies, such as Enron, and others, who were infected with the greed of the day.
Now, as a final nail in the coffin that needs to hold this dead, but still quivering body, let's look at the enticement that feeds the infectious greed. There is always a "compensation plan" with these MLM companies. This is the appeal to make millions of dollars without having to work -- just sign up a few people and sit back to wait for the checks to come in.
Q2 is equally vague on this one. Several webs where this machine is being sold do NOT mention the terms of the MLM compensation program. But, there are references to "sponsor," and you can be sure there is, somewhere, the "plan" that will make you rich without working.
Here is one mention of the business opportunity:
It's good to know that the Q2 even solves emotional problems.
In fact, like many fraudulent MLMs, someone is recommending a "cookie cutter" web design, probably only to suckers who buy 10 of these useless devices, or some such requirement, and thus all you have to do is wait for the orders to come in.
I've published your letter and my reply as one of my Frequently Asked Questions. The world is full of false and fraudulent claims, particularly in the field of health. I see them all the time. When I investigate one I find, very often, that some greedy money motive is at the root. People get interested in frauds like this because they want to make a lot of money. Typically these products are sold by MLM (Multi Level Marketing) companies. The greed overcomes logic. The developers and promoters know they are lying to you, but they have only money as their motives. You THINK you want to help people, but you are really just interested in the buck.
You convince yourself they are right -- because you want the buck. That also is my opinion of the people who buy into this.
You then peddle your false sincerity and convince others. They might claim that they are really only interested in helping others. If you remove the MLM and "millions to be 'earned' with no work" appeals? Then, no one shows much interest.
For years I've wanted to invent a whole new (fake) product, just to show what it would like when taken to some extreme level. It would be a machine, or a pill that solves death, or makes fat people thin, or guys irresistible to girls, or some such claim.
I would structure it so that you could invest $5 to get your kit, then a "few dollars" more for your sample, and that you should then hurry up to open new checking accounts because you would not want to have all those soon millions in just one bank. The money would all be here by next Tuesday, but only if you are one of the first 13 to get your sample.
Oh, by the way, these are being produced in a brand-new, state of the art factory, and the first shipments will be next Thursday.
I have pasted in below one of their pages with, supposedly, a full explanation of this device.
Your message to me is on this page: http://www.oralchelation.com/faq/answers9.htm
The source of the below material is just one of many independent distributors for this fraudulent device -- the MLM company that suckers you in.
BEWARE! This link, above, has an automatic re-director to a porn site, called
I was able to get the correct page, but since doing that this re-director has become effective. You will see the correct page flash on your screen, then the porn site. Karl Loren
Q2 Water Energy System
|Why should I use the Q2 Water Energy System?
We could give you a million reasons why you should use the Q2 Water Energy System but the one at the top of our list is that you owe yourself a life filled with positive energy and vitality. Q2 Water Energy System is the newest and most revolutionary natural hydro-therapy product on the market and it can be used in the comfort and privacy of your own home.
There are no drugs involved, the device is completely non-intrusive and all you have to do is relax in the bath and let the Q2 Water Energy System unit do the rest. If you have health problems or even if you are fit as a fiddle the Q2 Water Energy System will still be of benefit to you. Many years of research and testing have demonstrated that the Q2 Water Energy System is completely safe and best of all .... it really works!
Who should use the Q2 Water Energy System?
Who should NOT use the Q2 Water Energy System
Organ transplant patients
How Frequently should I use Q2 Water Energy System?
Can I still use the Q2 Water Energy System while taking prescriptive drugs?
How does the unit leech toxins from the body?
Is the Q2 Water Energy System safe to use for people who have metal plates in their bodies?
Can I share my Q2 Water Energy System bath with someone else?
Can somebody else use my bath water after my Q2 Water Energy System bath?
Does it matter what material my bath or foot bathing container is made out of?
Why does the water color change?
What causes the bath water to change color? I have seen brown, greenish or orange?
My water is clear and my spouses is yucky, why?
Can I drink the bath water?
Will the toxins that come out of the water and my body go back into my system?
Can I touch or move the array whilst in the bath?
Why can I not use the Q2 Water Energy System every day?
Why do I have to have a break every 28 days?
I was told not to have a break because of my condition, is this right?
Can I put bath salts, bath oils or other additives into the bath?
Can I use the Q2 Water Energy System in a spa bath?
Should I take off my jewelry before using the Q2 Water Energy System?
Is it alright to have a Q2 Water Energy System bath directly after I have eaten or should I wait?
Do I have to lie/sit still, or can I move about?
Can I add more water to the bath halfway through the treatment?
When bathing with the Q2 Water Energy System, why do certain parts of my body tingle or slightly hurt?
I get tingles in my legs, but I have never damaged my legs?
I sometimes feel sick in the bath, what should I do?
Why do I feel tired after a bath?
Why is the Q2 Water Energy System different from other Bio Technology?
Q2 Water Energy System Technical Questions:
What is the function of the plates on the array?
How do I keep the Array in good condition?
How can I tell when to replace the plate and track sets?
What is the significance of the lights on the power supply?
I am a little concerned about getting in the bath with an electrical device. Is it safe?
*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.
This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent disease.
If you have questions or need more information:
Call: 800-769-7923 (MST)
Send me your comments, or your own question to be answered. Only two fields are required, but you are cordially invited to fill in all the others also.
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 3:53 PM
Subject: RE: Message to Karl Loren from the Chelation Therapy On Line HomeSection
My husband is getting a therapy from a chiropractor. He puts his hands or feet into a pail of water with an electric coil.
It is suppose to pull out toxins out of the body. Different colors in the water is to signify different things . Black being metals, yellow toxins in the kidneys or urine system. What do you think of this therapy?
My husband has a serious kidney disease. This Dr. says he won't have to have
dialysis if he continues this therapy for 10 times.
It sounds like one of those water machines. I went to there site and looked at the different machines. It does look like one of those.
The water turns colors. Today he did his hands again. The water turned very blue. The Dr. claims the water is pulling toxins out of his kidneys.
Here is another one of these frauds. When one crook sees another cheating the public, he figures he can cheat the public at a lower price and steal away all those customers. They are all crooks.
AQUA-CHI MACHINE WATER ENERGY SYSTEM - FOOT BATH AND SPA! EASE VITALITY! INCREASE BODY ENERGY! DETOXIFY! NATURAL HEALING! BALANCE ELECTRICAL BODY! FEEL THE ENERGY OF A NATURAL HOT SPRING WITHOUT LEAVING YOUR OWN HOME! WATER DETOXIFICATION!
We believe the order of events in getting well first starts with the bio-electric field, (we all have different vibratory rates); the second is oxygen (darkfield studies have shown the machine improves oxygen levels), and the third is nutrition and foods.Water detoxification is a way to natural healing.
Here is what the desperate guy is doing.
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