What about Coumadin?
Write to Karl Loren about this page
How about YOUR question here?
Read below or choose another question.
EDTA proves to be a more effective "blood thinner" that Coumadin and far safer. EDTA is NOT the standard of care, however, so no medical doctor would dare to recommend it instead of Coumadin. He could easily be sued for malpractice for recommending a non-standard remedy for "thick blood."
If you want to try some alternative to the rat poison, which Coumadin is, then you cannot expect to get help from any doctor.
Instead you are going to have to study the data and then come to your own informed decision. There is nothing illegal about YOU using any legal substance (such as EDTA) in any way you wish. This page has a full collection of data about Coumadin, and various alternatives. Remember, it is ONLY you who can choose to go to some alternative.]
The famous Garry F. Gordon, MD, and one of the brilliant biochemists on the planet, says this:
“It is my firm belief,” says Dr. Gordon, “that anyone considering using aspirin for the prevention of heart attack should learn everything they can about oral EDTA. It is my belief that EDTA is as much as 300 times safer than aspirin.” (Source)
I have some very major data, based on Dr. Gordon's lectures, about blood clots and the whole story that you must know if you want to avoid taking rat poison.
Here is the main page about Dr. Gordon.
Here is the main page about Dr. Gordon's comments about blood clotting.
November 15, 2001
Dear Karl,
I have an elderly friend who has been taking Coumadin for the past 25 years.
He is now considered legally blind and was told by his physician that it is due to the narrowing of the veins/arteries behind the eyes due to his Coumadin use.
Have you ever heard of this? 
Have you heard that Coumadin is used to kill rats?
I haven't found anything relating to this on any web sites or drug warnings for Coumadin.
His doctor said that the vision loss is not due to anything else.
Thanks for your time.
Evelyn
Dear Evelyn,
Yes, click here for that information. More information HERE.
One of these links includes this:
"There is no known medical treatment for retinal branch vein occlusion. Anti-coagulants such as heparin, Coumadin and aspirin have not been shown to be of value in preventing branch vein occlusion or managing its complications. Because anti-coagulants may be associated with systemic complications, they are prescribed only in specific clinical circumstances, for example for patients with known clotting abnormalities. "
Karl Loren
November 12, 2001
Dear Karl,
My wife and been taking Warfarin for about 1 year and went to a Coumadin Club.
On a Friday she went to a DR. because she was felling light headed.
The doctor said she had Labyrinthitis and gave her Antivert.
Four days later we had dinner and the next day I went to work to come home and found her past away.
She was 60 years old. Have you heard of any drug interaction of this kind.
Or send me a Webb site for more info.
I asked for a autopsy and it has been 8 weeks and no result.
Thank you for your time.
From Karl
Check the links in the above message, and the remainder of this site
KL
Dear Mr. Loren
Thank you for sending all the literature and your fast reply.
I am a retired 70 year old and can't afford that much right now.
My doctor has me started on Vit D but nothing else. I am interested in the bone dense calcium.
I have osteoporosis and also take Coumadin for deep vein blood clots----so I can't take any vitamin K or garlic. I also have only one working kidney and have had kidney stones. I also have a concern about calcium and constipation. Do you think Bone Dense Calcium would be safe for me.
I am old I guess (ha) but feel good except my bones hurt. I try to walk about one half mile a day-----thank you in advance about the calcium---Mary
Dear Mary,
While most vitamins won't interfere with most drugs, when someone asks me about a particularly bad drug I must tell them that the bad drug is far more harmful than what good might be done by adding some vitamin. You will get far more health benefit by finding a way to get off that stuff!
How much are you taking, and how long have you been taking this stuff?
The Coumadin is bad stuff! My oral chelation formulas contain EDTA which, itself, is a safe and superior "blood thinner." Click here for that data.
My reference is the "Physician's Desk Reference" series of books. One of those is called:
"PDR Guide To Drug Interactions -- Side Effects -- Indications."
That Book has SIX full pages of small print references to the various drugs with which Coumadin may have adverse interactions and side effects.
Another PDR Book provides information about Coumadin, specifically:
Excerpts follow:
Coumadin
Made by Du Pont Pharma
The most serious risks associated with [Coumadin] are hemorrhage in any tissue or organ and, less frequently, [death of cells] and/or gangrene of skin and other tissues. The risk of hemorrhage is related to the level of intensity and the duration of [Coumadin] therapy.
Hemorrhage and [cell death] have in some cases been reported to result in death or permanent disability.
It cannot be emphasized too strongly that treatment of each patient is a highly individualized matter. Dosage should be controlled by periodic determination of . . . suitable tests. Determination of whole blood clotting and bleeding times are not effective measures for control of therapy.
Special Risk Factors
Caution should be observed when [Coumadin] is administered to certain patients such as the elderly or debilitated or when administered in any situation or physical condition where added risk of hemorrhage is present.,
Information for Patients
The objective of [Coumadin] therapy is to control the coagulation mechanism so that thrombosis is prevented, while avoiding spontaneous bleeding. Effective therapeutic levels with minimal complications are in part dependent upon cooperative and well-instructed patients who communicate effectively with their physician.
Adverse Reactions
Hemorrhage
Bleeding
[death of skin cells]
Dosage:
Most patients are satisfactorily maintained at a dose of 2 to 10 mg daily.
[Karl Note: Click Here for more information on dosage and use of Coumadin.]
Thin Your Blood More Safely
There is a medical drug that may well be safer than Coumadin, even if more expensive -- ask your doctor about it. Click on the above link to learn about "Pentoxifylline." I discovered this drug when I was looking for some way to reverse the terrible damage caused by the radiation my wife had for her cancer. (See story on her cancer.) Radiation causes tissue to inflame and then harden. In the process the tissue enlarges. This is NOT a sign of cancer, but simply that the "fibrosis" is the "natural" result of radiation. "Fibrosis" in some place of the body can become life-threatening as it "grows." So, it would be very good to find some effective way of reversing this damage done by radiation.
There are also non-drug approaches to reducing the tendency of your blood platelets from "aggregating" or "clotting."
You can often use vitamin E instead. Vitamin E potentiates the effects of Coumadin (Warfarin sodium), and at up to 3,200 IU or less daily, it can completely
and safely substitute for the drug. That is just plain true. I've seen it again and again.
The case of the Big Trucker stands out in particular.[Karl Note: There are regular medical procedures for self-testing blood condition, and even procedures for "self-management" and self-dosing" of Coumadin, using devices described here.]
Click here for many pages about Vitamin E, as used in the Oral Chelation formulas sold by Vibrant Life.
. . . . .
At appropriate doses, vitamin E has virtually the same pharmacological properties as Coumadin. This means that appropriately high doses of E can indeed be substituted for Coumadin. There is an article about this, CLICK HERE. You can read an excerpt of this source below.
Bob was a big guy: tall, wide and heavy. He had a lengthy history of thrombophlebitis and most of its possible complications. One day he came to see me, wondering what options he had to forever taking Coumadin.
"You need to lose weight, Bob. That's the first thing. You need to stop smoking, too. There's no way any therapy, drug or anything else is going to really work for you unless you do those things first."
He listened thoughtfully.
"OK," he said. "I'll try. What else?"
Pleased that we'd even gotten this far without his wiping the floor with me, I proceeded to tell this man of few words about vitamin E as a "blood thinner." Drs. Wilfrid and Evan Shute of London, Ontario, in Canada pioneered such use of the vitamin back in the 1940's. Their medical society went berserk, blacklisted them from meetings, and expelled any doctor that even attended a lecture by the Shute brothers. Sometimes it would seem that you'd be better off with a bargain bunk on death row than to advocate vitamin therapy in the face of the bunker mentality of our drug-and-surgery health establishment.
Vitamin E is vastly safer than Warfarin, the generic name of Coumadin. Warfarin is the active ingredient in rat poison. Rats are pretty smart, by the way. They must be poisoned subtly and long-term, like patients. A cumulative moderate overdose of Coumadin causes their blood to be too thin, and the little bastards hemorrhage and die. A cumulative overdose of vitamin E, even extreme megadosing, has never killed anybody. Check the US Poison Control Centers data, or the DAWN statistical series if you don't believe me. So vitamin E has a Coumadin-like effect without a Coumadin-like danger.
Bob's prothrombin (clotting) time was 16 seconds without medication. His doc wanted 20 to 22 seconds, and got it with the drug.
"Will I get the same results with vitamin E?" he asked.
"You might," I said. "E is certainly safer than Coumadin. Ask you doctor to try a gradual reduction dosage of the drug while gradually increasing the vitamin dosage. I've seen that work well before."
Weeks later I saw Big Bob again. He had stopped smoking and lost weight. He looked noticeably trimmer and was, in fact, nearly 20 pounds lighter.
"How are you doing?" I asked him leadingly.
"Pretty good," Bob admitted. "Still on the Coumadin. Not taking the vitamin E yet."
"Why?" I asked.
The answer really surprised me.
"Well," Bob said, "I really don't want to talk to the doctor about this. He'll think I'm stupid and get upset if I question him about the Coumadin. He says I have got to take it."
"You can't talk to your doctor about this?"
"Nope. I didn't even finish high school," Bob said, looking down and to the side past his knees. "He'll just make me feel like a jerk for wanting to not take my medicine."
In the quack business, you see a lot of things, but witnessing a big strong man shrink childishly away from confronting his own doctor was a new one for me.
"You can talk to your doctor, Bob. You've got to be able to discuss your own body with your doctor. What did he say to you when he observed that you'd lost weight?"
"He said just keep doing what I'm doing."
"And stopping the smoking?" I added.
"He said that was good, too," Bob answered. "He never brought that up before, but he said it was good that I'd quit."
The great majority of patients who smoke have never been told to quit by their doctor.
"But our credit isn't good enough for vitamin E, huh?" I said with a half smile.
"You know, you're not offering anything foolish when you ask for a tapering drug dosage schedule and willingly come in for regular monitoring. The safer alternative is always worth a therapeutic trial; any doctor should know that."
Oddly enough, I wasn't getting anywhere with this argument.
Bob shook his head. He paused, then shook it again.
"No," he said. "Don't want to bring it up with him."
There was a pause.
"I'm just going to take the vitamin E anyway," Bob said quietly.
"I'd prefer the doctor was in on this," I responded, but if you are going to do it, do it right. Increase the dose over a period of weeks. Most people start with 200 IU daily, and eventually get to between 1,200 and 2,400 IU daily. Do it gradually, and here's a way to tell how you're coming: Go in to your doctor regularly, as you always do. Have him check your protime, as he always does. If you get the numbers he wants, he won't care how you got them."
"Could I increase the vitamin E and still stay on the Coumadin?" Bob wondered.
"More or less, but the more E you taking, the stronger the Coumadin's effect. You'll probably get to the point where your protime is too long, and he'll have to cut back on the dosage of Coumadin."
Bob thought about that for a bit.
"So I can just show him that I don't need the drug any more," he said.
"That's about it," I said. "If your protime is on the long side, he'll cut you back on the medicine."
Well over a month later I saw Bob for a follow-up visit.
"I did it," he said. The last time I saw the doctor, my clotting time was 23 or so. So he asked me, 'What are you doing?' I told him I was taking vitamin E. He said, 'Stop taking that vitamin. It is interfering with the Coumadin.''
The doctor preferred to thin the blood with rat poison (source for the text within the lines)
Continuing from the earlier text
Vitamin E is very different from the (other) fat-soluble vitamins. It is notoriously non-toxic (preemies have been safely given the adult dose equivalent of several thousand IU daily). Vitamin E is also largely destroyed in defending your body against free radicals. Plentiful vitamin C and (a tiny bit of) selenium contribute to recycling some vitamin E, but we still need it in daily quantities of at least 200 IU and probably closer to 400 or even 800 IU. (Stampfer, M.J., Hennekens, C.H., Manson, J., Colditz, G.A., Rosner, B. and Willett, W.C. (1993) Vitamin E consumption and the risk of coronary disease in women. New England Journal of Medicine. 328:1444-1449.)
I recall that Coumadin, or sodium Warfarin, is the same ingredient as used in D-Con rat poison. There are no fewer than six columns of cautions, contraindications and warnings about Coumadin in the PDR. There is much reason to prefer the vitamin; it is far safer, it is just as effective. I have never seen a vitamin E based rat poison.
It's Rat Poison Isn't It?
About 80 years ago some farmers noticed that their cattle were dying from an unknown cause. Veterinarians found that they suffered from internal hemorrhages but were not able to find a reason for several years.
At that time farmers cut hay and placed it in silos. The smell of new-mown hay is largely from a chemical known as coumarone. This particular year was hotter and wetter than usual, resulting in a particularly high coumarone level. In the silo, the heat, pressure and high coumarone level allowed a chemical reaction to take place which created an anticoagulant. When the cows ate the silage, their blood was not able to coagulate normally and they bled to death.
There were no large pharmaceutical research centers in those days. Physicians thought it would be nice if they could give the chemical to people who had blood clots, but they had no way of determining the dose. So it was used for rat poison. The Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation supported much of the work, hence the name warfarin.
A farm worker attempted to commit suicide by eating the rat poison. However, it does not work very fast. He was taken to the hospital where doctors administered vitamin K. This counteracted the Warfarin and the patient recovered. Now doctors knew how to counter an overdose, but they still did not know a correct dose.
Coumadin (Warfarin) was given to President Eisenhower when he had a heart attack in 1956. Since then it has been one of the most widely prescribed drugs in the United States.
The current generic versions were introduced in 1997 or more recently.
PLEASE NOTE: This is not just a fun story -- there is a report of a woman who was not taking Warfarin but spread a Warfarin-type rat poison weekly without wearing gloves or washing her hands afterwards. She evidently absorbed enough Warfarin through the skin to cause a brain hemorrhage. (A drug interaction may also have been involved.) The authors state that there are three other cases of absorption of Warfarin through the skin causing coagulation problems. Reference: Abell TL et al. Cutaneous exposure to Warfarin-like anticoagulant causing an intracerebral hemorrhage:a case report. J Toxicol Clin Toxicol 1994;32:69-73.
Associated Press (the false data):
"High doses of Vitamin E cause bleeding in people taking blood thinners. So can bromelain, a pineapple enzyme used as a digestive aid."
Comment (the true data):
The commonest prescription anticoagulant (blood thinner) is a rat poison derivative (Coumadin) which causes side effects too numerous to list. Since many natural remedies can effectively replace rat poison, complementary medical doctors and naturopaths are often consulted to help patients with alternatives like garlic, fish oils, vitamin E and bromelain. Although it is true that vitamin E and bromelain can enhance the anticoagulant effects of Coumadin, it is also true that they prevent heart attack and help reverse atherosclerosis. Vitamin E is a well documented antioxidant that prevents the oxidation of polyunsaturated fatty acids (the rancidification of fats) found in cell membranes. Bromelain is a digestive enzyme that breaks down arteriosclerotic plaques and prevents blood clots. The preventive benefit of using bromelain, vitamin E and other products far outweigh any minor risks. The real problem is the rat poison, not the natural blood thinners.
Blood-thinner: A common name for an anticoagulant agent used to prevent the formation of blood clots. Blood-thinners do not really thin the blood. They prevent it from clotting. [Coumadin is the most well-known blood thinner -- it is harmful.]
[Karl Note: How can you find out if your blood needs thinning? There is a device for measuring the "viscosity" of blood -- described HERE.]
Blood-thinners (anticoagulants) have various uses. Some are used for the prophylaxis (prevention) of thromboembolic disorders; others are used for the treatment of thromboembolism. (Thrombi are clots. Emboli are clots that break free, travel through the bloodstream, and lodge in a vessel.) The anticoagulant drugs used for these clinical purposes include:
- Intravenous heparin -- which acts by inactivating thrombin and several other clotting factors required for a clot to form;
- Oral anticoagulants such as warfarin and dicumarol -- which act by inhibiting the liver's production of vitamin K dependent factors crucial to clotting.
- EDTA is an excellent blood thinner. There will be exciting news to promote the use of my oral chelation formula, with Life Glow Basic, taking at least three capsules per day, so you then have 1,200 mg of EDTA per day. That will be shown to be completely adequate to provide the level of anticoagulant action needed for many requirements. More of these LGB capsules can be taken if a larger dosage of anticoagulant is needed. Doctors will not yet acknowledge this, but I will soon have large amounts of scientific evidence that EDTA can safely replace Coumadin. A partial report is HERE.
Anticoagulant solutions are also used for the preservation of stored whole blood and blood fractions. These anticoagulants include heparin and acid citrate dextrose (commonly called ACD).
Anticoagulants are also used to keep laboratory blood specimens from clotting. These agents include not only heparin but also several agents that make calcium ions unavailable to the clotting process and so prevent the formation of clots; these agents include ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (commonly called EDTA), citrate, oxalate and fluoride. [source]
There is growing and exciting research soon to be shown here that many diseases, like autism and others, need oral chelation, but that the oral chelation will not "work" well without more anticoagulants. The Life Glow Basic formula is ideal for this since you can easily vary the amount of EDTA taken daily, separately from the other vitamins that should be part of a complete chelation formula.
Here is a statement by a very famous doctor. Click HERE for the entire article by him.
There appears to be benefit from both therapies. [intravenous chelation therapy and oral chelation therapy] The I/V administration of EDTA cannot permanently reduce inflammation or excessive clotting tendencies. Safe nutritional ingredients included in the more comprehensive oral chelation formulas are well documented to beat aspirin heparin or Coumadin as "blood thinners," without their documented high mortality and morbidity.
Dr. Gordon was one of the founders of ACAM, the American College for Advancement In Medicine. He quit that group because they were unwilling to allow him to present his overwhelming evidence that oral chelation, using oral EDTA, was a very effective treatment. There is an extensive whole web site about him and his research on oral chelation HERE.
Here is one of the references:
HEPARIN and synthetic heparinoids have to be administered parenterally to assure clinical efficacy. Since oral administration of these drugs would be highly desirable, numerous compounds were tested for their ability to effect absorption from the gastrointestinal tract. The criterion of absorption was the appearance of plasma lipemia-clearing activity, which was first described by Hahn.
Several compounds (‘adjuvants’) were discovered to have this property, the best of these being certain salts of ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA). [Emphasis added.] Other active compounds will be the subjects of future communications. The present communication describes the use of salts of EDTA to obtain absorption of heparin and synthetic heparinoids. (source)
Source
Risk Posed by Heart Disease Medication Noted
New Blood-Thinning Drug -- Plavix -- Can Cause a Potentially Fatal
but Uncommon Disorder, Report Says
By Susan Okie
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 21, 2000; Page A08
A new blood-thinning drug widely prescribed for people with heart
disease apparently can cause a potentially fatal blood disorder in rare
cases, according to a report released yesterday.
An estimated 3 million people, including 2 million Americans, have
taken the drug Plavix, which the report links to 11 cases of a disorder
known as thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura, or TTP. Victims of
TTP develop multiple, tiny clots in blood vessels that supply many
organs of the body, and some die from damage to their brains or
kidneys.
The drug, also known as clopidogrel, has been promoted as a safer
alternative to a different blood-thinner, ticlopidine, that had previously
been associated with cases of TTP. Plavix was approved two years
ago by the Food and Drug Administration as a possibly more effective
drug than aspirin for reducing the risk of heart attacks and strokes in
people who have atherosclerosis ("hardening of the arteries"). It works
by preventing blood clots from forming.
Short-term, combined treatment with Plavix and aspirin is also
prescribed for an estimated 800,000 U.S. patients each year who
undergo implantation of a stent--a tubelike device used to keep open a
narrowed blood vessel in the heart.
All 11 patients described in the study "were very sick" and one died,
said Charles J. Davidson, a cardiologist at Northwestern University
Medical School and one of the report's authors. They were identified
by blood bank directors, hematologists and surveillance by the drug's
maker. In all but one case, TTP occurred within two weeks after a
patient started taking Plavix. Patients were admitted to intensive-care
units and treated with plasma exchange, a blood-filtering procedure.
Two patients later suffered recurrences of the disorder.
The report, to be published in the June 15 issue of the New England
Journal of Medicine, was released early because the journal's editors
wanted to inform doctors and patients of the findings.
Researchers emphasized that TTP appears to be an uncommon side
effect of Plavix. "It's a very rare event," said Eric J. Topol, chairman
of the department of cardiology at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation. He
said no cases of TTP were seen among approximately 30,000 people
who received the drug in clinical trials. In contrast, the frequency of
TTP in people taking ticlopidine, the older drug, is about 1 in 1,600.
"We don't actually yet have . . . full numbers on what percent of people
will develop this side effect" of Plavix, said Rose Marie Robertson, a
professor of medicine at Vanderbilt University Medical School and
president-elect of the American Heart Association. "What we wouldn't
want . . . is to have people abruptly stop their medication without
talking to their physician."
So far, all known cases of TTP have developed soon after treatment
began. "People who are on the drug long-term, from what we know
thus far, do not appear to be at risk," Davidson said.
Plavix is manufactured and marketed by Sanofi-Synthelabo, a
Paris-based pharmaceutical company. Bristol-Myers Squibb also
markets the drug in the United States. The companies have worked
with the FDA to develop new labeling for the medicine that will go into
effect within about eight weeks, said Jim Fusilli, a spokesman for
Sanofi-Synthelabo.
Like its chemical cousin ticlopidine, Plavix works by stopping
platelets--a type of blood cell--from sticking to one another to form
clots. A 1996 study of more than 19,000 people found that Plavix was
slightly better than aspirin at preventing heart attacks and strokes in
people at high risk of those disorders.
In susceptible people, TTP is thought to be triggered by an antibody, a
chemical produced by cells of the immune system, that provokes the
formation of platelet-and-protein plugs in small blood vessels. Typical
symptoms include fever, neurological problems (including stroke or
coma), kidney failure, anemia and a low platelet count. The
blood-filtering treatment works by removing the antibody from the
circulation.
Robertson said several studies have clearly shown that anti-clotting
drugs, including aspirin and clopidogrel, can reduce the frequency of
strokes and heart attacks in people at high risk of cardiovascular
disease. Although the potential side effect should be studied further,
high-risk individuals still need preventive treatment, she said.
© Copyright 2000 The Washington Post Company
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-----Original Message-----
From: bulkmsm (bulkmsm) [mailto:bulkmsm (bulkmsm)]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 11:08 AM
To: extract2@oralchelation.com
Subject: Message to Karl Loren from the Chelation Therapy On Line Home
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message:
Dear Karl,
Great info on rat poison.
I'd send it to the Drs. that put me on heparin and coumadin except they wouldn't read it. Too drug co. brainwashed!
I had DVT after RV trip to TX in AUG 2000. It was so hot there I was inactive. When I got back I pushed some mtn bike rides that resulted in DVT. I did a lot of research and dropped the coumadin one Dr. said I'd be on the rest of my life.
I learned a lot and used about all the blood 'thinners' you mention soon after I got out of my week in the hospital.
Drs. couldn't understand why my INR wouldn't budge from 1.1 and wanted me to take bigger doses of rat poison.
I took 3 tbls. cod liver oil with E, loads of garlic that I always took, also many other.
Now my blood pressure is back to normal 100/60 and pulse 50's (40's at night). I've always been an ultra distance athlete.
First long distance swims up to 10mi. Then Ironman triatlons. Finally 100 mi. races. I finished 19 of 26 100's from age 65 to 71 when I blew a meniscus that turned me into a gimp but an active one. That explains my blood & pulse.
I'll bookmark your letter for anyone I know that needs that info.
Thanks! CY
PS If you haven't heard of Krill Oil, you might check Tom Valentine's True Health. It seems unlike other fish oils, it contains its own vitamin E and has more benefits.
Dear Carl,
Tremendous story. Well done.
I'd like to post your message on the coumadin page?
If that's not OK, let me know and I'll remove it.
You are an inspiration for others.
Karl Loren
OK to post.
Interesting info on ultrasound and urine testing.
Like amalgams. It takes awhile to find out how bad xrays and mercury filings are when the mainline drs. and dentists are telling you they are safe. Then you need to find safe alternatives.
Thanks for that info.
Carl
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Click here for more information about how EDTA will help prevent osteoporosis and also is a much better method of "thinning the blood" than Coumadin.
Click HERE for information on a home self-testing machine -- if you test your own levels, you can then try alternatives with the safety of knowing what is going on.
Coumadin and alcohol do not mix! Click here to get that data.
Click Here For Official Information by the manufacturer about Comuadin.
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showing the copyright belonging to Vibrant Life, Burbank, CA, at
www.oralchelation.com .
The second condition is that the material is not to be used for any purpose contrary to
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This permission does not extend to materials on this site which are copyrighted by others.
